sarah bahbah in conversation with eli rezkallah
sarah bahbah is a palestinian-australian artist whose body of work has inspired many. copied but never replicated, she remains undefeated, surviving the immense pressure that comes with putting yourself out there on the internet - the world’s cruelest place. she does this by choosing herself first, going to therapy, and alchemizing her emotions. as a friend, sarah is deeply caring and generous with her emotions and advice. prior to our talk, i asked all the plastik editors to put in their questions for sarah. we had a deeply inspiring conversation on a beautiful spring day in new york city.
rasha
the visual storytelling aspect of your work makes the viewer feel the same things your subject is feeling, whether it's fun, boredom, heartbreak, laziness, or the whole shebang. what kind of mood are you creating on set to capture those emotional states?
sarah
so there are a lot of elements that go into creating the energy you see in the photographs. in pre-production, there needs to be an understanding between me and the talent featured in the series: i'm inviting them into the darkest part of my healing. therefore, i have to express to them where i'm at, what these photos represent, and, do they relate to it? can they empathize? can they channel it? oftentimes they say yes. there's already this understanding of what they're walking into when they come to set. then there's the actual production, and in that is me building these worlds that i've romanticized in my head. taking real-life experiences and then adding layers upon layers to make these spaces feel more accessible. when you see, for example, the photo with the girl in a long gown in tears, surrounded by artwork in a candlelit setting, that's something i’ve experienced in my apartment. i'm in a nightie and i'm miserable and i'm painting or drawing or just sulking. i recreate these sets with the hope that it's just inviting a unique space to express yourself. when the talent comes in, we've already set the mood because it's channeling my emotions through what you see visually. i think of everything, and pick everything, it's all curated to create such an intense mood that the viewers can feel.
eli
do you shoot in silence or do you prepare a playlist for the mood that you want your subject to be in?
sarah
it's often silent since we have to move quickly. i try to do so much in such a short time. music is used occasionally, but i think the silence really allows for the rawness to come out because the talent has to sit with what's being portrayed, whereas music can sometimes take the focus away.
eli
how long does it take you to do one shot on average?
sarah
i haven’t shot anything since 2021, so i haven’t been in that space for a while. however, to answer your question, we would do 10 to 16 sets a day. we have like 20 minutes to shoot our shot, and once we're finished, my art team is already building another set. then we're moving and we're moving. i'm so exhausted by the end of it.
eli
yeah, i work in the same way. in a sense, the build-up to the set is the hardest part because it's very practical and planned, and then on set it's a little chaotic, but i do prepare a playlist for every shot.
ralph
you have a very cinematic aesthetic. storytelling is vital to your craft. when is the world getting a sara bahbah feature, and what would it be about?
sarah
a feature? like a film? i'm actually more excited about television. i like the flexibility of taking my time to tell a story, and i'm kind of obsessed with the hooks at the end. it makes storytelling more challenging. right now, i'm deep in a project, which i can’t explicitly say what it is, but it's been such a challenge to figure out how to build a world and keep people obsessed with it so that they go to the next episode. it's such a fun challenge. i'm so into it right now.
eli
without revealing too much how would you describe it in a few words?
sarah
playful, nostalgic, heartbreaking and relatable. everyone will see themselves in the show emotionally, especially if you live in america.
if i’m on someone's mood board... cool, i'm glad. yet how about hiring the creative that inspires your art direction? it’s that simple. i've had situations where i was the only person on the mood board, but they still hired this white, male photographer.
eli
what’s it like being an australian-arab artist in america today?
sarah
i'm a palestinian woman living in hollywood, so it's not very easy for me right now, but i can't complain compared to what our people are going through. i don't want to center myself in this, because my struggles are like nothing compared to what our people experience.
eli
i agree. we cannot compare our struggles with anyone who's going through anything worse than us. nonetheless, when i hear about an artist who is open about their struggles, it makes others feel better, if they’re going through something similar. it validates their feelings and makes them feel less alone. so from that perspective, how is it?
sarah
thank you for saying this. it's been a really big surprise and a slap in the face to know that the people who have benefited from my art for such a long time and celebrated it don't celebrate my identity as a palestinian. i've never shied away from my identity and i've always advocated for our people from day one. the repercussions of speaking out have been eye-opening. i lost hundreds of thousands of followers and i got threats sent to my house. i lost many work opportunities and book sales. some people said they were burning my book and selling the ripped-up pieces. it’s heartbreaking to witness the cruelty of humans all because i believe in the liberation of my people. for the past six months, i had to retract and be even more intentional about how much i give to the world because i suffered so much through my art to help others and this is the outcome. they don't fucking deserve it. now i’m in a grieving phase. i'm in an introspective phase. i'm processing and i'm just mad at the world for being so cruel and so ugly and not leading with empathy nor love and getting caught up in propaganda and not seeing that humans are suffering. it’s terrible.
eli
let me just say that i love how you speak of your work. when you say “i invite talent to create a series with me” it’s so inspiring.
sarah
you need to be your biggest advocate. i need to be my biggest advocate because i learned early on that you can't trust the world.
eli
i could learn a thing or two from you. where does this confidence come from?
sarah
i got so fucked over at the early stages of my career. i was deceived, i was robbed, i was lied to by people i thought i could trust in the industry. i'm at this place where i'm more careful; i don't want to give the middleman any money. i think we're in this era where the world is changing and social media is helping a lot of people to be independent. the middleman will be dead eventually.
ralph
you've released books, directed films, been featured in almost all of the major publications in the world, and even launched an ad agency. to what do you attribute all this success?
sarah
to trusting my intuition, knowing that i'm on the right path and trusting the uncertainty. since i was a kid i would get this momentum that comes out of nowhere and it's a great idea. I would be like, okay, i have to execute this. not knowing why, not knowing anything beyond. i have to do this and i have to do it now. it's the reason for all my success. i was given a gift from the ancestors of the universe and i had to act on it. a lot of people receive it, but they are afraid to use it. when you get that momentum, you just gotta do it.
eli
how did you learn that, though?
sarah
i didn't. it was just always a part of me.
eli
that’s the premise of “the creative act” by rick rubin. as artists, we are portals to ideas in this world. ideas come through us as long as we make ourselves available and clear. that's where success comes from. the clearest i've been in my life is when i've done the most amazing work in my life. how do you stay clear?
sarah
you allow yourself to go through the process of feeling honestly, don't resist anything. don't resist sadness, don't resist anger, don't resist depression. as artists, we must allow ourselves to feel, by creating the space to let emotions run through us, driving us to prolific visions. when you're in the highest form of feeling your feelings, you leave this reality. in my case, i enter a space that’s visual and i see what my feelings look like. if i don't have my heart open in this way, i wouldn't be able to attain that. it's like i leave my body, i leave this realm, and i go to a dream-like state and my emotions come with me. it's so powerful.
eli
that’s so beautiful, i really needed to hear that. what i struggle with most lately is that i always feel like i'm in a fight with time. i don’t want to be stuck on one feeling. i wish to remain active. the fact that you haven't done a photo series since 2021 gives me so much validation that it's okay to go through your feelings. the only resistance that i have is the idea that “i don't have time”, and that i need to keep going. meanwhile, you said no, it’s fine, take all the time you need.
sarah
the second we start succumbing to the societal pressure of creating, that’s no longer art in my opinion. art is the opposite of what meta is pushing us to do: constantly creating. i don't think it's possible to pump out ideas. ai makes art much easier, but it lacks soul because it can’t process the human experience. i think when people put that pressure on themselves, they lose authenticity and relatability. they feel like they're doing it for other people and not because they have a real story to tell. that's what i think. i'm losing so many followers because i haven't created anything new, but i don't care.
eli
you're shedding people that don't align with you, which is fine. it's about the impact and not the “productivity”.
sarah
i'm not gonna give in. i just can't. it's soul-crushing. i don't want to create just to create, because people are waiting. what i'm working on now is bigger than anything i've ever done, and it takes time.
philippe
the theory about attachment styles is prevalent in your work. can you tell us about how this theory affected your understanding of yourself and your work?
sarah
i learned more about attachment theory when i realized i was dating an avoidant. even though i was convinced we were in a relationship, he would freak out at the prospect. i'm like, but we are in a relationship. i see you every second day. you text me every moment of the day. you tell your parents about me. you bring me flowers. if this isn't a relationship. what is it? then he told me he wasn’t looking for a relationship: “i told you that from the start, but i want to keep doing what we're doing. i want us to stay monogamous”. the math did not add up in my head. i was left having to make a decision. do i let this go on or do i choose myself and my sanity and walk away? i chose to walk away because this was something that happened to me before and i wasn’t going to allow it anymore. after that, i took myself to tulum. everyone around me was like you need to read this book (“attached” by amir levine and rachel heller), and i read it. i was in denial because i never had that awareness of myself. i always knew i was anxious and obsessive and an empath. i spiral and i do mental gymnastics to try and feel safe, but i didn't realize there was a term for it. once i started to learn about attachment theory, i learned that i had anxious attachment and a lot of my art was coming from that space. i had to reframe all of that, starting with what my art looked like. now there was this awareness that the guys that i'd been dating were avoidant and i was anxious and i kept getting stuck in this pattern. i had to create a series about it. i’m still very passionate about this and i'm taking it into other things.
philippe
you've openly spoken about going to therapy and the impact it had on your life. can you tell us how therapy affected your art?
sarah
therapy is such an important part of the artist’s process because it brings in a professional opinion on what you're chaotically, or individually experiencing. you gain self-awareness that you would never have if it wasn't for this outsider telling you what you're experiencing with factual knowledge versus something hypothetical or self-taught. therapy taught me the tools to be able to process my emotions and that took years - decades, in fact, of unlearning disassociation and numbing my anxiety; which were all coping mechanisms. i had to restructure and rewire my brain. it was lots of practice and learning how to properly breathe and process. i don't get anxiety attacks anymore because i'm so aware of when one is coming that i have the tools now to dismantle it before it gets too crazy, and the same with regulating my emotions. i wouldn’t have known how to regulate my emotions without therapy. i used to feel such extremes, such highs, such lows … today, one might say that i am a boring artist, but i’d take that any day.
philippe
not everyone can afford therapy. what's the best free therapy?
sarah
there are books that really helped me understand life better. anything by thich nhat hanh - like “fear”, “love”, and “being peace. “the four agreements” by don ruiz miguel is amazing - it enlightened me in a way that i started seeing the world a little differently. “mindful compassion” is a great book about learning how to have compassion for yourself based on your traumas. the book that put me into therapy was “the drama of the gifted child” by alice miller. that shit was so powerful, and it's such a small book, but it triggered me in a way that i didn't know what was happening. i realized i needed professional help. also obviously, “the power of now” by eckhart tolle is a must. that's the first book about enlightenment i ever read, i was 20 years old. i had an amazing year because of it.
philippe
you're a beautiful woman who fully embraces that. as a self-portraitist, how do you navigate between self-liberation and self-expression without going into vanity?
sarah
true self-expression for me comes from feeling liberated in my body and feeling myself. i think vanity became a social construct specifically designed to keep women in hiding. it perpetuates this idea that we shouldn't be proud of ourselves and shouldn't showcase our bodies or whatever. i just don't stand for it. i don't believe that vanity is a thing. feeling liberated means not operating from the ego. true liberation comes from detaching from ego and being one with the rest of the world, being shapeless; that's what liberation feels like, to feel like you are just existing as pure love. if i'm existing in that space, i feel liberated. if the rest of the world existed in that space, then everyone would be truly liberated because no one's actions are dictated by their ego.
philippe
your work has become so iconic that it's often copied. how do you deal with creative theft?
sarah
it upsets me and hurts me. i don’t always go public with my feelings, instead, i talk to my close community and think about whether we should take action. it's gotten to the point where there's no point in getting angry because it's gonna keep happening. at the end of the day, if i’m on someone's mood board... cool, i'm glad. yet how about hiring the creative that inspires your art direction? it’s that simple. i've had situations where i was the only person on the mood board, but they still hired this white, male photographer. it just doesn’t make sense; why get someone to recreate my work when you could just hire me or at least approach me and see if we can work something out? but no, they don't. i don't understand. honestly, it's mind-boggling.
ralph
what comes first, the caption or the visual? and what's the process?
sarah
the captions always come first. it's such a long process - i haven't been in it for a while, so it’s nice to think about. it all starts with an event that triggers me and my sense of safety. whether it’s grieving someone feeling like i’m in survival mode, or going through a traumatic event: i will sit with those uncomfortable feelings, which lead to a lot of intrusive thoughts, which lead to me recreating situations where i do feel safe, or i say the things that i didn't say in the moment, or the things i wish i said. i started writing all of these one-liners down because when i'm in these ocd spirals, it's obsessive. i'm reimagining my world in a million different ways. in those moments, i'm coming up with line after line after line after line. i need to go through this process to make sense of my experiences. it's my way of healing. once i've gotten to a place where i feel like i processed the events in every way possible, i’ll have over 100 subtitles. then i go into the visual aspect, and i start to see what i was experiencing and to romanticize it. then i'll find talent and i invite them in. i'm like, hey, this is what i'm going through. can you help me tell my story? next thing you know, we’re already shooting.
rasha
the version of the feminine that you embody and portray is one of strength, power, and complete autonomy. how much of that do you attribute to your arab heritage?
sarah
everything is attributed to my arab heritage, but growing up in the west, there’s always this push and pull of wanting to maintain your culture whilst not wanting to confine yourself to a box. as a palestinian woman, my love languages are deeply rooted in my culture. the way i experience life is deeply rooted in my culture. we fucking love to cook. indulgence is such a big part of our culture. we cook for each other. i love the way we express ourselves passionately. also, my parents have an attachment to nature; the land and the sea. in australia, we go to the beach all the time, and we go to the vineyards too. my parents came from palestine, from jordan, and they maintained that culture. as for me, it was more complicated because i was getting bullied for being a brown arab girl in school. the more unlearning i did, the more my brain was decolonized. everything changed. i realized that i am an arab woman living in the west. i'm not a western woman. that was the biggest pivot, creating my world, my own identity.